something to talk about
Another Saturday, another open thread. Talk about whatever you want in some interesting orbit. Anyone go to the b’ham events last night? I’d love to hear about the reading or the music that went down.
categories: open discussion
posted by what at 04:09 am
Didn’t attend but did see some of the myfox feed. Interesting bits? Well, one real biggie… when he stops touring for awhile this fall he plans on writing a masterpiece. His word. A masterpiece album, like Steve Winwood’s Arc of a Diver or Van Morrison’s Tupelo Honey…
Now ain’t that good news?
How does one plan to create a masterpiece? Isn’t that more of a serendipitous, accidental thing?
Good luck to ya, bub! If it’s better than the last CD, that will count as mini-masterpiece in my book.
Well, obviously you can’t just decide to make a masterpiece, or else I’d be doing that instead of doing this. But it seems Ok to have that as a goal going in, rather than, say, knowing you’re doing an album in a hurry that’s a compromise between studio requirements and your own interest.
I didn’t hear the comment, but rather than the issue of whether something is good enough to be called a masterpiece, I’m wondering if there’s something in the composition of those albums that he’s going for: a unity of theme or concept, or some other quality that he’s going for. In other words, what makes an album a masterpiece? Is it just good music, or more? I could make a compilation album of nothing but outstanding songs, and even fill it with ones that most people wouldn’t have heard, but it wouldn’t be a masterpiece or even very interesting.
So basically what I’m wondering is, what does Hicks mean by that word? Does he just mean he’s going to have the time and freedom to do what he wants and has confidence in what he can do with that, or does he mean something more?w
But since we probably can’t know that, what does a masterpiece album mean to you guys?
I have a question for anyone with more knowledge of the music business then I have. Where is Taylor Hick’s career heading? I realize that unless Taylor or someone from his team posts a direct answer I am dealing with pure, 100% conjecture but I decided to take advantage of “Mr. What’s” open thread and post my question. If it is deleted I will take no offense.
The reason for my inquiry is I went to Taylor’s concert in Columbus, Ga. It was Great (in my opinion). The few young people I took (18-23yr olds) enjoyed it. But when I asked if they would buy his music there was mute silence and a few polite “maybe’s. I never felt any of the songs including my favorites “The Right Place” and “Where ever I lay my Hat.” were going to get any radio time. And in fact I have yet to hear Taylor on any radio station- Chris, Elliot, Kelly, Bucky and I even came across Katherine once but not one note of Taylor. Now I do live in a mostly rural area of Georgia- but you would think I’d hear one song just once. I listen to the radio quite a lot. The book seems to be getting (and I put this politely) less then stellar reviews. I had his CD out the other day and several friends saw it and they asked, “Hey, I voted for this guy, is he still around?”
I was listening to a radio interview the other day with a former member of the Grateful Dead. He stated they made little or no money on any of their albumns, had little radio play and that they made most of their money on touring with a group of loyal Dead-Heads in tow. Will Taylor follow this path? While he seems to be getting good marks from the Soul Patrol I don’t see a rush of new members?
Maybe he wasn’t lieing when he said, “It’s about the music.”
cause the career seems to have hit a stale mate.
{sorry for typo’s, worked last night}
Althea - well, like you said, it’s unlikely that anyone here can answer your questions. I think it would take more than knowledge of music business, it would take a crystal ball.
Personally, I’m not worried about it. The album has sold a lot, the concerts are good, he’s sounding terrific and making choices that are interesting, working with interesting people, will have new material coming out next year and time and resources to do that.
When I turn on the radio, I almost never hear any artist I’m interested in, but hear a lot of ones that I’m not interested in, so while I wish radio was different, I don’t mind at all that Hicks falls in with the good ones.
It’s an open thread, and i’d like to continue having open thread, both to build community and to get a read on what kind of topics people want to read about. But I’ve been around the boards long enough to know that every fansite in existence has discussed this topic to death - album stats, comparisons to people whose only similarity to Hicks is that they happened to enter the same contest at the same time, radio play, etc.
I guess I’m a control freak. I’d like to have free discussion, but it gets under my skin to see such continued interest in topics that totally fly in the face of the reason I started this blog to begin with. I can’t fault people for having this interest - if you’re worried, you’re worried. If you’re into Idol, you’re into Idol. I know there are sites that are all about these topics, so it’s clear that plenty of people are interested in it. But I’m just not. These are not the sorts of comparisons that I find musicaly relevant or interesting.
So I’m not deleting your comment, because you’re very gracious in how you put it. But I’ll just state my preference: let’s move on.
What are you reading? Heard any good local music lately, or any under the radar acts trying to make it nationally? Why is Loren wearing Snape’s haircut: does he know something we don’t? Anybody catch any other music in b’ham last night? Any good movies you’re watching? I’m wanting to catch Talk to Me, but it’s not out here yet.
I would have preferred that you deleted my comment. I usually just briefly check a few varied sites on the internet when I have the time. I do not devote enough time to any one site to really get the feel of what the protocol maybe nor do I get a sense of what has already been discussed. Perhaps a good reason to stay a silent lurker. I do suspect however, since this is a Taylor Hicks site I may have stepped on a few toes. I think perhaps inadvertently you did answer my question. Thank you. I apologize for my redundancy.
It’s the 40th Anniversary of the “The Summer of Love” this
weekend. Anybody have any stories to share with those of us
that were to young or just a twinkle in our mother’s eye at
that period in time?
http://www.contracostatimes.com/music/ci_6001338
I recently bought the CD “Monterey Pop Festival”
From the liner notes:
‘You could see Ravi Shankar, English rock & roll, Otis Redding
adn San Francisco and L.A. music all together in one place.
No one had ever done that before.” — Country Joe McDonald
More reminiscing here:
Scoop is a commentator that visits KFOG radio station
now and again. Some of you may want to take a
trip down memory lane with him.
http://media.kfog.com/kfog/scoop_ms0707.mp3
Althea - if you really want your comment deleted, I’ll delete it, as well as my response. No need to apologize . It’s not a matter of stepping on toes or it being inappropriate for a Taylor Hicks fansite - every TH fansite I’ve seen talks about this topic on a daily basis.
It’s a personal bias of mine. I started this site to focus on music, because so many fansites spend a lot of energy on fan issues, celebrity life, sales stats, etc. and I see those things as distractions from why we listen to music. So I’d prefer the open thread not be used to go back to those issues that are discussed everywhere, but to either go deeper into the discussions we do here, or to go off on some other totally new wild tangent.
But again, if you want me to delete, say so, and I will.
Quick answer to what Hicks means by “a musical masterpiece”. Steve Winwood’s Arc of a Diver and Van Morrison’s Tupelo Honey. And I believe Hicks has absolute confidence in his ability to pull it off. He may be humble, but he believes in himself.
As far as what a masterpiece album means to me… I’d go with concept album. A unique combination of message, poetry, tune and voice that communicates the artist’s vision. Like? Maybe Pink Floyd’s The Wall.
speaking of the song co-written with John Mayer:
I hope that comes about.
Here’s what the guy actually said about his next album, and about producing a “masterpeice”:
That’s quite a distance from your recollection: “when he stops touring for awhile this fall he plans on writing a masterpiece.”
Althea, don’t apologize, I’ve been wondering the same thing. I’ve taken several people to a Hicks concert and they were unmoved. I don’t get it, but there you go.
Thanks Curious Joe. I’ve been trying to get the exact quote because I was sure we were dealing with what happens (even with the best intentions) when people try to remember a quote and tell a second person who then tries to remember it. Stuff gets lost and subtly or not so subtly changed. I’ve seen this happen so much and often without anyone trying to remember it wrong. We just are human and have imperfect memories. Having seen Taylor live a lot I felt positive the quote was not what he said but rather how someone remembered it. Taylor has dignity and confidence he also has great humility as it relates to the music. What you have down there Cjoe — reads more like it to me.
I’m looking forward to the next time I see him live. Whatever words float around never leave with me the way the music does. That’s what stays with me and what I can trust myself to remember.
I didn’t mean what I said to be snark. I remembered what he said wrongly, apparently. He’s trying to get to that point where he writes a masterpiece, but I guess it just may not be this fall! I guess I am so looking forward to great stuff from him that I collapsed the time frame a tad. Oh well, I can wait.
In the meantime “really great music” sounds pretty good to me!
Caryl- is it really that odd that some people you know don’t like all the same music you do? I spent a whole week going to concerts of people that some friends and family loved. They were over the top ecstatic. I was bored to tears.
I’m just glad to be getting the music I like, and that there’s obviously enough market for it to continue to be made.
Taste in music is like taste in food. You have to deal with different pallets. We drove to hear Taylor and it was one great meal for me, I want seconds. This guy impresses me more all the time. I can’t get his vocals out of my head. You get the feeling that he knows every song every written - and just has them in his bag of tricks for the right time. That band sounded great too. I’m starting to get this ‘itch’ to play harp.
Where’s Asstral these days? –I’m the only Ass around.
Asstral’s floating around, watching us all from his asstral orbit. I’m sure he’ll come in for a landing one of these days.
In the meantime, as the only ass on the block, have you had a chance to check out the ever growing magical cover bag? At least, our digital image is increasing, but I imagine his internal library is also increasing.
So which show did you hear? I’m not catching any of the summer tour for a few more weeks, so I’m having to live vicariously
Have to toss in that my wife and I had the opposite reaction with the kids we brought with us. Our daughter (19) and her boyfriend (22) went with us. They loved Taylor — they’d never heard him before. None of us had seen him live before. The first thing they did when they got home was to fire up the computer to see what they could find of his. So different strokes.
We were at the Genessee in Waukegan, IL. sorry you’re missing the summer shows. I want to hear another one. Being a new fan it’s great to have this blog. You guys give me what I’m looking for and you took the time to answer my questions.
Itm - talking about his career is fine, we do it everyday. What’s he playing, who he’s working with, what he’s done in the past, what he’s planning in the future, who’d you like to see him work with, what kind of album you’d like him to make, etc, - all of that is career talk, and no problem. It’s just the stats talk and trying to draw predictions from it that I’m really, really sick of.
I’ve seen this topic be nothing but a double helix of comments with one strand saying not much more than “don’t these numbers mean that his career is in trouble” and the other strand saying not much more than “those numbers don’t mean anything, wait and see”.
Both of those things have now been said in this thread. But If someone has some really new information or insight on it, by all means tell us.
Yo. So you think press in People Magazine hurts his musical career?
Ha. That’s hilarious. I love opinionated people. More! More!
Gosh Itm, we see this very differently. So differently that I’m not sure addressing your points is even a good use of time (yours or mine) You are entitled to your view — but you don’t sound like a Hicks fan. That’s OK too of course. But I am a fan for reasons that for me are very solid. I like what he’s doing now. I hope you have some musician you enjoy. Wouldn’t going and listening to that person or group be a better way to use your time. ..Just saying…
The trolls are out tonight!!! I’m loving Hicks. I’m a deadhead from back there and this guy thinks jam. I was ready to hate him but big shocker for me. That workplay stuff is some good shit and that guy can blow. And People Mag… who gives a flying F… whether he talks to them or not. He can jam so screw’em if they don’t get him.
Honesty is good. Don’t worry this place is troll immune. We don’t have trolls here. We have haters but that’s about it. But Itm I know you’re not a hater…you’re just opinionated like Joan Crawford!
itm - are you saying he shouldn’t be doing this summer tour? Just trying to understand the argument.
I don’t know if this is feasible (maybe it’s in fact being done) but I think the tour should be used to be trying out at least some of the stuff he’d like to do for the next album, because I think performing live is something that helps him develop good material.
Another idea I had once was to build a fansite that focussed on music and build connections to the wider music community. So that when new people dropped in, they’d find discussions of music, like at other musician’s sites, and take him seriously as a musician. I thought real music fans might be about as interested in reading about career planning for him as they’d be in reading People articles.
What, yes I’m not so sure what the point of the summer tour is. I thought he should start writing already. I guess we all have our expectations. Then I hear something about an acoustic tour? I don’t think he’s using the summer tour as a rehearsal space for his new album because i read somewhere that he said when he tours he tours and when he writes he writes. That was a bummer.
Ok what I get what you’re saying….but I’m just a little disgruntled at the approach to his career - but I can see how some might find that boring.
Here’s the thing: Joan Crawford loved and cared about Christina Crawford - she just had a weird way of showing it. But the love was there. I get you ITM.
Yeah, drop the “troll” name calling, please. Another pet peeve of mine. I don’t think I’ve seen the term used properly in the last 5 years.
Itm’s comment about begging people to listen to a Hicks album reminded me of something that happened recently.
I was traveling with someone, playing a mixed playlist of lots of different people. Hicks’ old recording of “People Get Ready” came up. Said someone, who is a professional musician, keyboard player, said: “Oh that’s my gf’s favorite song - Curtis Mayfield, right?” listened awhile “that’s really good, who is it?” So I told him, Taylor Hicks. And his mouth slammed shut, like he really wished he hadn’t said a thing.
There’s a lot of work to do to turn around the anti-Idol bias, but I don’t know that it has much to do with book tours or People, because I’m sure this person knows nothing of either of those things.
On the good side, one of the only other tracks he commented on was a Workplay one - it started up and he said “now, that’s how horns should be used” - so it was a pleasure to point out that yep, same guy again, and I sensed a very little thawing.
Ok well that’s my point. The fact that people need to be thawed is not good. I do think it has a lot to do with the way he promotes himself. Because I don’t know of any seriously respected musicians that are promoting themselves in the same way. It’s like on one hand he’s trying to get rid of the American Idol image but he keeps using the American Idol image for publicity. So WTF? That’s the stalemate right there. One step forward, one step backwards. The “Soul Patrol” are already diehard fans. Why does he keep catering to the same fans while alienating the rest of the musical world? I hope I am making sense. But I was reading down and there was a post about music and being “cool” and yes I think there is a lot of truth to that. Taylor Hicks’ rep is not “cool” unless you are a diehard fan. For people that just know him from Idol he has not proven himself to be a cool musician or someone that has broken the mold of AI. He is still very much caught up in the AI thing. His book has hardly any info about AI but people are only buying it because he was the guy from AI. I hope I am making sense but I know I’m trying to say something here. If you’re going to leave the AI image - LEAVE IT. Bye bye. Leave it and go far away from it. But don’t use it when it’s convenient because all that does is bring you back to the same place you were trying to leave in the first place.
I want to add too, just so everyone knows.I THINK HICKS IS A FUCKING FANTASTIC MUSICIAN. The guy has got something special. I just want to see him make something of that. I just feel as if he is making choices which are not helping his career. I feel like he’s a little confused on which direction he is going. He says one thing then does another at least that’s what it looks like to me. I know there are a lot of his fans who see him as doing no wrong…but I am not one of them. I am not an unconditional fan I guess. I love his TALENT unconditionally but not his choices. So I guess I am a little like Joan Crawford. lol
itm - on leaving Idol behind, I can totally agree. Only difference, is that I kind of liked thinking of this place as an Idol-free zone. And how much it’s being used in his other press, I couldn’t tell you, because I don’t read it.
But I disagree about the summer tour. From what I can see, the music is continuing to develop, and I’d be very surprised if he’s the kind of guy who can go off and write and go straight to the studio with everything ready. The stuff has developed so much on the road, that I think that’s got to be a step in the process. So yeah, write in the fall, do a few select live gigs, maybe even privately, and then go into the studio. The covers from the summer are probably not going to be on the album, but I wouldn’t be surprised if some of his old originals are.
This is such a nice place and Mr. What does a good job. Look itm sorry for saying the T word.
Here’s the thing. It’s like maybe you don’t get jam and jam is like man well it’s everything to me. Taylor, now he gets jam. It’s gotta be live. That’s where music is real. At least for me. Look I’m and old crusty toad and Hicks has me caring enough that I’m sticking comments on a blog. It’s not my type of thing to do. For me he’s good enough to fight about. I’m not trying to add gas to a fire so don’t take me that way. Hicks is awesome. And sorry again to Mr. What. I’m not use to watching my mouth.
Jazzybug please don’t be sorry at least to me! I don’t mind being called a troll. But if hater is more acceptable here than hater is fine. lol I am not very sensitive and when you have a mouth like mine you can’t be. Hicks IS worth fighting about which is why I’m fighting! I just want to see more. That’s all. I don’t know much about jam…
Group hug.
ass, if you start singing kumbaya, I’m out of here
I’m not at all sure that the summer tour was entirely Hicks’ choice. He’s made comments about “The label” sending him on this forced march.
that makes sense, about the choice for touring constantly being maybe not all his. i thought he was trying to make money, was what it was, because it didn’t make much sense to me either, this constant touring. i don’t think the appearances are hurting really, i just think the first album, well, i think whatever time and creative constraints were put on it, it kinda showed, and that hurt his reputation a bit. i do think this second album is important and i hope he can do it right; i am sure the first album’s sales rang his bell and he knows that marketing isn’t everything;; i am sure he will fight for this album being done right. but careers are long, and america loves second acts; even if it takes him a few years to make a really great album, which i do think he has in him, it’s fine, it’s all good. i know a lot of musicians who would love to be where he is now. he really does have a lifetime to play with his art! and that’s great! i’m more an indie label type myself and as long as he can make a living, it’s gonna be fine.
by the way, this is my first post here and so to make this an open topic, just wanna say that i just discovered, a few months ago, The Flaming Lips. they are awesome, awesome, awesome. they’re like the beatles’ slaker little brothers, like, the beatles from the magical mystery tour era. they have a lot of humor and generosity and they have good things to say. i love ‘em.
The Flaming Lips were the musical act on Leno the night of Taylor Hicks’ first appearance on that show. The lead singer sang through a megaphone. Interesting. Loud.
Hicks management company would be the one to book him on the summer tour .. not the label since the label does not control tours and they don’t make money on his touring. Obviously his management wants him to tour as much as possible and make as much money as he can because that’s how they make their money… But he needs to put his foot down then and say NO MORE I think…and sit still and write. I believe if he writes and records an incredible album he won’t need to constantly be concerned with marketing and publicizing himself because it will sell itself.
The management books the tour, true. But I think the label is the driving force. It is after all a promotional tour to sell the cd.
The label is NOT the “driving force” behind the tour. They are simply not - the tour promotes the artist, not the CD.
Itm makes some good points. But I don’t think it’s the “celebrity” side that makes the “cool” people not want to listen to him, it’s just the fact that he was on Idol that makes eyes roll. I had a hard time getting past that myself. I’ve never paid attention to Idol or anyone on it before, didn’t look him up or listen to his stuff until after the show was over. I get a little traction introducing him to people by way of some of the sit-ins he’s done, but not a lot. I also think he did try to pull away from Idol quickly, and that it kind of backfired (remember all the backlash around the time his album came out about him being ‘ungrateful’ to Idol?). People mag is one of the few media outlets that doesn’t continually trash him, he should use it. Oh, and I get your point about catering to the already-converted (I cannot bring myself to use the term “soul patrol”) – but it’s hard to cater to fans you don’t have, no?
Also agree with What’s comments on trying out material on this tour – I think he’s always doing that, like putting in more acoustic numbers on this summer tour. It’s all good. Can’t wait to see where he goes next.
Welcome, Karma. One interesting thing about the idol stigma: while he was on the show, most of the press was about isn’t weird/cool that a real musician is storming the Idol walls. Now, he’s widely perceived as just another Idol and is having to work to be seen as a real musician. When did that change take place and what caused it? For people who were not aware of the show at all, it probably just comes with name.
For people who saw him on the show, or at least were aware of the hype, when did it happen? Backing away from the Relix comments may be part of it, and the album compromises are probably a part of it. Maybe it’s inevitable - while you’re contending, the backstory matters. Once you’re the Idol, you’re part of that whole scene in a lot of people’s eyes.
It’s a tough balance for him, I’m sure, to move towards where he really feels at home, while meeting obligations and developing a fan base.
Thanks What! It is pretty ironic that after trying to get the attention of the indie community all those years he winds up on reality TV only to get ripped by the “pop entertainment” world while the indie publications are starting to take him seriously. And I agree, straddling that line, or figuring out where he belongs has to be incredibly challenging. For me, though, one thing was clear from seeing him on the show (besides his obvious music knowledge) – he would kick ass live. I have definitely not been disappointed.
karma said this on July 22nd, 2007 at 6:44 am “it’s just the fact that he was on Idol that makes eyes roll.”
According to the airstaff on the radio station I listen to
they don’t take Ameirican Idol contestants seriously. That’s
exactly what one of them told me on the phone.
^^^ Kind of renders the whole “radio friendly” strategy pointless, doesn’t it? If you’re going to be anathema to pop radio, might as well do it in good grooving style.
This conversation rocks.
From the very beginning of Idol, Hicks has been a polarizing figure. People seem to either get him or not. And for whatever reason, their feelings of like or dislike are very strong. I love the man’s music and heart, but none of my friends - with whom I otherwise share similar musical tastes - care much for him one way or another. Neither can they explain why he and his music don’t do anything for them. I have no idea what Hicks can or should be doing to develop a larger fan base. I don’t even know if that’s a possibility for him. If it isn’t, he is likely to struggle for his entire career. As difficult as his situation appears to be, however, I believe that he will find a way to make a place for himself in music. He has fought too long and too hard to just fade into oblivion. A strong new album and some live CDs and DVDs are my wish. If the journey is more important than the destination, than I look for an intriguing journey indeed.
Yes, Lindbergh is right label has nothing to do with the tour. No labels do. I disagree with whoever said Taylor should keep on publicizing in people mag because they are nice to him. Being in people all the time puts you in a weird catagory. Is he a celeb or a musician? Because since he can actually DO something he should let that sell himself instead of his fame. He’s got this salesman thing going on (maybe from his past) that he needs to get over. Make a good next album and it’ll carry you through.
My guess is that label does indeed want him out touring and promoting the songs from the CD….also, he’s not going to go long without performing, hence, the summer tour….He has definitely had to battle his AI image..that, unfortunately, is the nature of AI itself…stand out…he stood out…both with music & personality..unfortunately it’s the personality/crazy dancing image that lots of folks are left with…that all goes away if they see just one of his concerts…his live performances are overwhelming…since he doesn’t have an EL Divo type voice, he absolutely needs to find songs for his next album that allow the beautiful voice he does have to be showcased…the People/publicity stuff is okay, it does remind folks about him, and some of those folks go buy his CD…in those publicity opps, I do want to see him lose a bit of the AI persona…though since many fans still relate to him through that, he cannot lose it entirely. A tough position. The more pulic/TV appearances he makes, the more his AI image should mellow & the more I would like to see his tour persona/singing/performing ….can’t lose the AI persona entirely, as part of him is that person.
I’m a diehard fan…any lingering doubts I had about his singing/performing dissolved and totally disappeared with the first concert I saw him perform live..I love his singing..listen to all 3 of his CDs, and now downloads from the concerts…he far superceeds with his muscianship so very many of the “successful” “singers” that have permeated radio/grammys etc….I like good music, and folks…Taylor Hicks makes GOOD music, very good music.
A little long winded for a fly by post…sorry.
Forgot…the joy his music makes me feel is something I can always depend on.
My husband is in the music business so there’s no need to guess here. Label and touring are not connected. The label doesn’t care what Taylor does on tour since the label makes no money from it.
Wow… a thoughtful discussion about Taylor Hicks and music. Nice.